Offering wisdom gained from nearly 40 years of cumulative experience, REALTORS® Sarah Ware, Megan Oswald and Brian Kwilosz offered practical ideas for business growth during the Business Issues Forum at the Illinois REALTORS® virtual Winter Meetings Friday morning.

The trio touched on subjects of social media, branding, diversity, fair housing, recruiting and more during a panel discussion, “Get to know what you don’t know.”

Among their insights:

• use mentors, education and the Code of Ethics to put the needs of consumers above your own,
• following your procedures can help you serve all clients fairly,
• to attract more diverse homebuyers and home sellers, join affiliated real estate organizations for education and local clubs for sports fans and hobbyists.

To learn more about how Ware, Oswald and Kwilosz have succeeded and how they recommend you grow your business, watch the entire video.

Full transcript:

Introduction: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Illinois REALTORS® Podcast. Get to know what you don’t know and what obstacles and opportunities await you in 2021. REALTORS® Sarah Ware, Brian Kwilosz and Megan Oswald will engage in a lively and informative discussion about the business issues REALTORS® should be aware of and prepared to manage in 2021. Learn how to reduce risk, grow your business and sharpen your skills all through a lens that focuses on diversity, inclusion and equality. Expand your customer base and save time and money by navigating the obstacles that lie ahead.

Sarah Ware: Good morning, and welcome everyone to the Illinois REALTORS® Business Issues Forum 2021. I am Sarah Ware, the chair of the forum and joining me today are two industry experts. First, we have Brian Kwilosz, who is my vice chair or chair of vice and he will be joining me as well. He is the immediate past president of Mainstreet REALTORS® and also the designated managing broker of EXIT Real Estate Partners and he brings about 13 years of industry experience along.

And then we have Megan Oswald. She is a broker at Fulton Grace and currently the Women’s Council of REALTORS® president of the Chicago network and the president-elect for the state Women’s Council of REALTORS®. She brings about 15 years of experience.

Sarah Ware: Thank you for joining us, so I have some industry rock stars with us. Again, Brian and Megan, as I stated earlier in the introduction. And so we’re going to dive into a few questions; it’s more conversational about some insights that can help our own brokerage practices, whether we’re owners, designated brokers or just practitioners. And then we have some positive thoughts and procedures for how to expand our networks, give us ideas about new avenues for business all while making our circle bigger, more diverse and inclusive, since diversity is the hot word these days. And so we can just dive into that, like what does really diverse mean? You’re going to need to be diverse in markets and industry and things like that.

Sarah Ware: So, my first question, and so I would just say, just jump in and feel free to add or subtract. We don’t want to have Brian to kind of hog all the questions because we know that’s just what he does. So whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or new to the business because as we know there are several new practitioners just coming into the business at record levels, due to the pandemic. Help us understand why we should stay in our lane, meaning that we have as a real estate practitioner, once we get our license, there are different avenues that we can go under and focus on residential, commercial or property management. What are your thoughts on, should we dabble in all three or find an area of expertis? And Brian, I want to start with you as a broker owner. I want to see what are your thoughts around that.

Brian Kwilosz: Priority is taking care of our clients and customers, right? So making sure that we abide by the Code of Ethics, which means that we are representing the interests of the people that we are helping.

Sarah Ware: And what was that? The code of what?

Brian Kwilosz: Ethics.

Sarah Ware: OK. I just want to make sure we understand that we do practice by a code. I think people think we’re just out here practicing.

Brian Kwilosz: Practice until you get it right. So yeah, follow the Code. And I mean, if you look down, I believe it’s Article 11, that talks about competency standards within your practice of real estate, right? So I think that we need to have a level of understanding of the entire realm of real estate, but personally I came up as a residential practitioner, right? So if you came to me, Sarah, and you said, ‘Hey, I want to purchase a big million-square-foot warehouse.’ That’s outside of my realm of expertise and I’m not going to be able to represent you in a quality manner.

So I should probably refer that out to someone else, a trusted professional that I have met in the past or built my circle of trust around. So staying within your lane, I think is important. You need to have an idea of what else is out there, because especially like you said, people coming into the business, you don’t really know what you want to focus on. So dabble a little bit, have a trusted professional, have an advisor, have your designated managing broker or trainer within your office, kind of guide you with that. And I think that’s important.

Sarah Ware: And so, I’ll get to you and Megan, but I wanted to piggyback off something you said. So as an owner with about 50 agents, what have you seen coming from your newer agents or some more seasoned are they itching to refer, or it’s not so much of a problem because you kind of laid that groundwork, but what are you seeing out here with just newer agents?

Brian Kwilosz: I think what we’re seeing is, especially with newer agents, they want to do everything. So they want to come in, OK, I have this person who needs whatever they want to purchase or rent or lease within real estate and they want to do it. But it’s important, in my opinion, as owners, as designated managing brokers, that we step back and say, OK, let’s stay within our wheelhouse, right? Let’s not get over our skis here and stay where you are comfortable with and represent the client in the best way possible so that they’re taken care of. So it’s important to kind of take a step back and focus on what you’re comfortable with.

Sarah Ware: All right. Thanks for that, Brian. So Megan, and first of all, I want to ask, is that a virtual background or is that always that your background?

Megan Oswald: No, it’s my background.

Sarah Ware: All right. I will say no more. So as a practitioner, you’ve been in business about 15 years, I know you do a fair amount of business with rehabbers and you know your way around the city pretty well. What do you think about agents trying to do it all or, I mean, especially I know you’re involved from a volunteer standpoint, so you probably come in contact with seasoned agents, newer agents, and just kind of that conversation. What are your thoughts around that?

Megan Oswald: You know, I agree with Brian. What’s that old saying—jack of all trades, master of none? So while I do think that you should have the knowledge for everything real estate, whether it’s commercial, property management, residential.  I do believe you should have the knowledge of all of it, but have your referral partners, have somebody there that is an expert in that. Because you are going to do your clients a disservice if you try just to make it happen. Well, yeah, I can figure it out; I can ask people along the way. But honestly, I don’t feel like you’re working for your client’s best interest if you do that. So stay in your lane, as Brian said, know your wheelhouse and you’re going to be serving your clients in their best interests.

Sarah Ware: And so, either one of you, if you wanted to increase knowledge, what are some avenues that you suggest? I know you Brian, as a mentor, but as far as education, because a REALTOR® there’s so much out there for education what is it something that you suggest just as baby steps to even start off?

Brian Kwilosz: First step is to look at some of the NAR, the National Association of REALTORS® affiliate groups like Megan, you’re president-elect of the Women’s Council here, right?

Megan Oswald: Yeah, for state network.

Brian Kwilosz: I think, and you can probably speak to this and I’m a past president of our local network, (our chapter in West suburban), but that’s a fantastic place to start. Network and get to know your fellow real estate professionals, because you’re going to find someone who knows something that you don’t know and that’s the best way to do it.

Megan Oswald: Yeah. I agree. When I first got into this business, the first few years I tried to do it all, right? I pretended like I knew what I was doing on all avenues. But quite honestly, it wasn’t until I started getting more involved with our industry partners like these other networking groups and kind of going to those and surrounding myself with other people in the business. People think, well, why am I going to go somewhere and network with other REALTORS®? Well, this is the reason why, so you can learn from them, right? And then you have that knowledge and then you can also refer if need be. So it’s definitely very important to get involved and network in this industry.

Brian Kwilosz: It’s ultimately taking care of your client, your customer, and minimizing your liability and risk, right? And the best way to do that is to build your network of professionals that know more than you do so everybody benefits.

Sarah Ware: Let’s take a break in our conversation to check out this video fromNAR’s Katie Johnson, where she reminds us about our ethical duties to clients and consumers, and also highlights a fairly common policy that could present a problem if not handled correctly.

Katie Johnson: Hello, Illinois REALTORS®, I’m Katie Johnson, general counsel, and chief member experience officer of the National Association of REALTORS®. Thank you to Sarah and Brian for inviting me to share my insights at this very important Business Issues Forum. As you’ve likely already gleaned, embracing diversity, equity and inclusion in your business practice is not just the right thing to do, it’s also good for your bottom line. The key to most any successful business is to appeal to as many people as possible. The wider the appeal, the more opportunity you have to expand your customer base and increase revenue. From a legal perspective, avoiding liability is also good for your bottom line because it saves you money and it saves your time. The number one key for avoiding legal liability, with respect to the Fair Housing laws and the Code of Ethics is practicing the Golden Rule. Your legal and ethical obligations to provide equal professional services, stems from that basic and enduring concept. Treat others as you want to be treated.

Katie Johnson: So how do you know if you’re consistently providing equal access and equal professional services to all people? Well, here’s how, you’re using systematic procedures for all interactions. you’re obtaining and providing objective information about properties and neighborhoods. You’re letting the buyer client determine their own criteria. You’re providing a variety of choices and you’re documenting the services that you provide to each client. Being consistent in how you greet, qualify prospects, follow up with clients and keep records will greatly reduce the chances of inadvertently violating the Fair Housing laws or Code of Ethics. Recently, 10 fair housing advocacy organizations have filed a lawsuit against Redfin, alleging that the brokerage violates the Fair Housing laws by failing to provide equal services to all prospective homebuyers in a given market. The lawsuit alleges that Redfin uses the estimated price of a home to determine which consumers to serve. And that this practice has a disparate impact on individuals who are not white.

Katie Johnson: They alleged that Redfin makes some exceptions to the price policy, but only in predominantly white areas. The fair housing organizations alleged that this is digital redlining. Now, as I said, the lawsuit was only recently filed so we can’t know for sure how the case will progress, but I’ve been asked to share my thoughts with you today on how you might avoid being subject to similar allegations. That is, I’ve been asked to address whether the Fair Housing Act prohibits real estate professionals from providing broker services based on the price of a home? The answer is technically no, the Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination based on race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, and familial status, but it does not mention price. However, the act also prohibits discrimination and practices and policies that have a disparate impact on members of one of those protective classes. So while the act doesn’t expressly prohibit discrimination based on home value, such policy could be illegal if it is proven to disparately impact members of a minority race for example.

The main takeaway here is that if you claim to make your services widely available, make sure your services are available on the same basis for all customers. And that there’s no large population that is significantly excluded. And be careful to always follow your own policies. Making exceptions can lead to trouble. Now you may be wondering how does this apply to the luxury home market? If you claim to make your services available to a niche segment, still make your services available on the same basis for all customers in that niche, a highly selective niche, such as luxury home buyers is likely to exclude most of the general population regardless of race, and is likely to suggest that the policy was not intended to exclude a large population of a particular race or ethnic population.

Katie Johnson:  Thank you for your attention to these important matters. Thank you for adhering and providing the most professional services and equal services to all people. And thank you, especially for your desire to strengthen your DEI and fair housing practices within your offices. Please be sure to check out the many, many resources we’ve made available to assist you in that journey on nar.realtor. Thank you.

Sarah Ware: How would you talk to someone, if they’re trying to break into a different market? Because even though we have a license to practice throughout the state, every neighborhood, there are different neighborhoods, different suburban markets and they practice differently. So what are your thoughts around that? Like how can you diversify that? If you’re not familiar like for me, I am in Chicago. But it could be someone that’s up in Naperville, but that may be not a market that I’m familiar with, but if I want it to break into that, what are some suggestions? If I say what I really want to break into this market or am new to the business and Naperville is where I live. I want to break into that. What can I do here or diversify my network already?

Katie Johnson: I mean, for me, we have so many tools at our fingertips that I believe can help you gain some knowledge in different avenues, right? So for instance, if you’re looking, you want to now start working in the Naperville market and you’re not real familiar, we have so many tools with Remine, on MLS that I feel like we can really utilize. A lot of us don’t know, but there are so many ways and again, there’s classes, MLS offers so many classes that you can take to continue to grow your knowledge in a different market. I believe start there.

Sarah Ware: And so, what if you have a knowledge base or a network of people that are a certain ethnic group or a certain group of people, is there something that you can do within that network to kind of become more involved and things like that, a PTA or your background could be like, I live here, and so my makeup is this. How do you expand your marketing in those areas?

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah. So first of all I live in Naperville, so…

Sarah Ware: I’m not going to Naperville. That’s way too far.

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah, you got to check your passport on that one. One of the things that we focus on at our company is OK, identify what you enjoy doing and get involved with a like-minded group that enjoys the same thing, right? So whether it be a refereeing soccer games or a PTA, like you said, Sarah, or basket weaving, get involved in something like that, because people who are like-minded  are going to be attracted to the same thing. But make sure that it’s something that you enjoy, that you’re passionate about, right? Because if you get involved into a group, whether it be a diversity group or a women’s council, or again, we’ll go back to basket weaving. If you don’t really like to weave baskets, then people are going to recognize that, and they’re not going to identify with you. So follow your passion.

Sarah Ware: Basket weaving, OK. And also, I just kind of wanted to add too, on some of those like some people may feel that just because of the strategic partners of the name, that (groups) may be only for a certain group of people and that’s a good way to break into certain networks that you may not be familiar with and to get some background and then network with those individuals to aid career referral of partners and just be. If there’s a different way to culturally do business, then they can learn through those organizations as well. And I think between the three of us, I’m sure we are dues paying members of quite a few of those.

Brian Kwilosz: It’s not only just the business benefit from it, but the friendships that you gain and just the knowledge and the experience that you gained from it, I think is more valuable than anything. And we can probably provide links, I think to all of the affiliate groups. I’m not going to start naming them because I’m going to miss them.

Megan Oswald: Brian, you actually hit that on the head. You know, I’m a huge advocate of don’t do something unless you’re passionate about it, right? Or you have some sort of LGBTQ market or whatnot, but you don’t really like want to be there. You just want it for the revenue and that is going to show and how you treat your clients, right? Whatever that clientele is.  I agree with you 100% on just make sure that it’s something that you’re actually interested in and you’re not just trying to add another, what’s that? All these phrases, I’m trying to say, what another notch on your belt or whatever, right?

Sarah Ware: Shiny new toy for the week or they read somewhere that average income in this group is this one.

Megan Oswald: Right, exactly.

Sarah Ware: I want to grow my business. I can network with these people and then, or the luxury market. That’s the whole, everybody thinks you can sell them, pop into luxury overnight and not realizing what the work it takes.

Brian Kwilosz: But go into it with interest in, not want for money. It’s the experience that is really what it’s all about.

Sarah Ware: So next, why is it so important to build your brand and employ consistency and practices and procedures in the marketplace while always seeking and diverse clientele? And then, so what are some of the examples to touch on?

Megan Oswald: I mean, the first thing, obviously, you’re going to say building your brand, there’s a lot of moving parts and pieces with this.

Sarah Ware: What does that mean to build your brand? I guess that’s the question. When you’re building your brand? What does that really mean? It’s an overused phrase nowadays. It doesn’t mean starting Instagram and making some videos and that’s my brand. Like, what does that mean to build your brand?

Brian Kwilosz: It’s identity, right? It’s what people view you as, it’s your identity, whether it be professional or personal.

Sarah Ware: Meanwhile, you may be building a different brand. We’re waiting for the ponytail.

Brian Kwilosz: It was there.

Megan Oswald: It totally has the John Travolta look.

If you think about again, your brand is what people remember you as, right? And so, and not to say, you can’t be memorable without having something distinct for people to go back to, but it’s something that’s always going to come top of mind when someone thinks about you as an agent, you as a professional, you as a businessperson or in this industry. So, I feel like it’s really important to build that brand. And sometimes it can come to you instantly and right away. And sometimes I feel like it could take years for you to figure out what you want your brand to be and what you identify as.

Sarah Ware: Because for me, like part of that is what do your clients remember you as. You know  Megan, she is very thorough. She does X, Y, Z. Oh, you know Brian in Naperville; he really knows the market there. But I think it’s kind of, “Hey, how do you teach your customers?” How do you teach your clientele day to day? And what is it about what makes you special to kind of help that branding, and making sure your brand is something that is consistent. You can’t have one person like, “Oh, they were great.” Or this person does this all the time, but something that’s building a consistency because I think part of branding is consistency. Kind of like if we are sending out marketing material, people want to do it one time and that’s it. Or if you want to do things once they did it once, but the consistency.

Brian Kwilosz: The other side of that is, well, “Hey, it worked so well. I just stopped doing it.” So consistency and the branding I think is what you consumer, your customer, your client stays with and what they take away after you’re done helping them with what they’re doing, right? So it’s that evergreen effect of, “Okay, well Megan. Yeah. She helped me buy this house, but she kept in touch with me. She’s always there for me. She’s referring people to me, she’s an asset and a benefit to me.” So that’s your brand is what stays with someone after you’re done with the transaction.

Sarah Ware: Right. A year later. “Oh, Hey XYZ, I remember they did this me.” What is the memory that they have of you?

Megan Oswald: Right. Just remember when you’re building that brand to continue and follow policy and procedures throughout that entire process, right? That includes treating everybody that you’re working with fairly equally. You have to remember all of that is part of real estate. It’s so consistent throughout the entire, I guess, throughout your entire brand.

Sarah Ware: Yeah. Right. Because I know there’s been some recent cases about some real estate professionals doing one thing to certain groups and now they’re branded with that. They’re known for that and that carries with you. You want to make sure you’re treating parties fairly. Let’s shift gears a bit and talk about growing your business. So on that subject, how can you align yourself? Brian you mentioned if I see anything in Naperville, I want to sell, how do you align yourself with a local expert or referral partners to expand your network? I know you, but say for instance someone out there doesn’t know you (but so all those listening, if you’re looking for something in Naperville or have a client Brian follows, you can just send it to him directly). Outside of that though, Brian, what are some things that people can do to kind align themselves with the different organizations, veterans, local home builders, lenders and things like that?

Brian Kwilosz: We talked about this, Sarah and Megan. We know each other because of our involvement in groups.

Megan Oswald: Yeah.

Brian Kwilosz: Megan, you talked about that. I think that it’s the industry involvement that really has more benefit than a lot of people realize.

Sarah Ware: Because I think people are always wondering, why would I volunteer would be with a bunch of REALTORS®? And I’m sure all the time you don’t get Brian, you are president of Mainstreet. ‘m sure people are like going up the chain I’m looking at, and maybe we may think of it as time, but I’m looking at all the referral connections that you probably gained along the way, just in different institutes, because you were in different roles along the way and kind of built your network.

Brian Kwilosz: Not only local either because you’re involved on a national level. So there are referral opportunities as well as friendships and knowledge opportunities across the country and in the world, right? We have relationships with other countries, like I signed agreements with India, with Ireland, I mean, with other states. It’s an amazing opportunity that you just really need to take a look at. It was great. I mean, it’s fantastic. The business and the personal aspect of it.

Sarah Ware: Or international

Brian Kwilosz: What’s that?

Sarah Ware: I mean you’re global or international. I know there’s some people trying to decide.

Brian Kwilosz: We’ll call it global. So we’re going global, right? So there’s global opportunities out there that people don’t even realize. I didn’t realize before I got involved that there were global opportunities for not only business, but relationships, friendships and knowledge.

Sarah Ware: Sorry Megan I cut you off now. So I’m going back to your point.

Megan Oswald: No, no. It’s OK. So again, to Brian’s point, it comes to be where yes, you can grow your referral partners with these different organizations, but it’s also one of those things where like, for instance, I’ve learned so much from Sarah, right? Just literally, I mean, don’t let it go to your head, Sarah, OK? But just being obviously involved with Women’s Council, obviously I know that I can call her or just in regular conversation, learning from her, right? Parts of the business that I’m not familiar with or from different people in the organization. So the friendships are there, but just the growth in becoming friends with them, learning about the business in random conversations, right? It’s immeasurable.

Sarah Ware: And those random conversations may or may not happen in someone’s backyard with something that may or may not be on her back table with some other past Women’s Council members. And we all collaborate but those are some of the benefits.

Megan Oswald: Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more.

Brian Kwilosz: But that speaks to the benefit of diversity, right? It’ll be in your personal life but within your business.

Sarah Ware: Yes. Because I mean, it just makes us better, stronger, and then we’re better for it in the long run as we make our business planning out. It’s not like we wake up one morning and say, “Oh, I want to get into this market.” Then we know that there’s a strategic effort to it. If I’m trying to get into a certain market that Brian may be familiar with or Megan or any other person that I’m friends with, that’s a question that I can say, “Hey, how did you do this?” And then they’ll take the time to share because  people you volunteer with are more apt to kind of give because they understand the time and commitment that we put into this. Let’s take a break in our conversation to check out a recent video featuring NAR’s Lesley Muchow and Bryan Greene where they discuss a new fair housing program and puzzling questions that come up often in our practice.

Lesley Muchow: Hi, I’m Lesley Muchow, deputy general counsel and vice president legal affairs. NAR’s Fair Housing action plan, commonly referred to as ACT stands for Accountability, Culture Change and Training. Joining me today to talk about ACT as well as best practices for complying with fair housing laws is NARs Vice President of Policy Advocacy Bryan Greene. Bryan under the ACT plan, NAR recently released a new fair housing training called Fairhaven. What should members know?

Bryan Greene: Fairhaven is a new simulation training that requires users to respond to life-like scenarios where housing discrimination may occur. The training provides users with customized feedback based on the user’s decisions to help real estate professionals enhance their fair housing awareness.

Lesley Muchow: The initial reviews of Fairhaven have been overwhelmingly positive and the training is available to REALTORS® free of charge at fairhaven.realtor. ACT also sets out to help REALTORS® provide school information while avoiding Fair Housing pitfalls, to be clear providing school information is not illegal under the Fair Housing Act, but it can be a slippery slope when reference to the quality of schools is used. For example, as a proxy for area demographics or to steer clients away from a particular area, one best practice is for REALTORS® to provide clients with objective data and to avoid substituting their perceptions of the community for hard evidence about the quality of a school.

Bryan Greene: That’s right. REALTORS® can always direct people to third-party resources. We also recommend that real estate professionals direct clients to school district administrators, to get objective multifaceted information about area schools. Clients can also reach out to people with firsthand knowledge of a school such as parents with children in the school district.

Lesley Muchow: That’s good advice. Shifting focus. Let’s talk about pocket listings. Well, pocket listings do not violate the Fair Housing Act. They do raise longstanding concerns about their potential to be used in a discriminatory manner. For example, using a pocket listing to market only to people of a certain race raises clear fair housing concerns. NAR’s clear cooperation policy adopted last year helps address these concerns by requiring that all publicly marketed listings be entered into the MLS within one business day. But what advice do you have for REALTORS® who continue to use pocket listings or office exclusives to sell property?

Bryan Greene: Certainly REALTORS® should never use a pocket listing or office exclusive to restrict access to a property for discriminatory purpose. For example, I recently read a story where a real estate agent used a pocket listing to limit showings to people of a particular religion. After only one potential buyer came to the property, the seller fired the agent and hired a new one that agent placed the listing on the MLS and sold the property at full asking price within a month. Not only did the first agent fail to serve the best interest of the client as required by the realtor code of ethics and state license law, the agent’s actions violated the Fair Housing Act while the pocket listing may be appropriate. In some circumstances, generally speaking, putting a listing on the MLS, not only best serves the client’s interests, it also furthers fair housing by ensuring a listing is available to all potential buyers.

Lesley Muchow: Thank you, Bryan. These Fair Housing conversations are always ongoing to learn more about ACT the Fairhaven training and fair housing issues in general. Check out these resources. Thank you for joining me for this episode of window to the law.

Sarah Ware: So as a broker owner, how and why is it important to diversify the personnel in your office and how beneficial is that to everyone who works for you and with you?

Brian Kwilosz: So, you said earlier Sarah that diversity is our buzzword right now?

Sarah Ware: Yes.

Brian Kwilosz: Everybody’s throwing it out. All right. We need to be diverse.

Sarah Ware: And it means so many things, different things to different people.

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah. So as a real estate practitioner we talked about the groups that you get involved with. So Megan, you were saying find something that you’re interested in and I said, passionate, but I love your interest and get involved with that. So that’s also, you can reverse that and that’s what is going to come to you. Does that make sense? So what you’re involved with and what you’re interested in, what you’re passionate about, that’s going to project onto your consumer and that’s what’s going to come to you for business, right? So the more broad spectrum that you can be as far as what your involvement is and what your participation is and who you’re interested in, what you’re interested in, is going to just basically generate you more business and give you more experiences. Does that make sense?

Megan Oswald: I feel like you’re in my head. Because I feel like I said, almost that exact same thing on another panel like a month ago.

Brian Kwilosz: I may have stolen that from you.

Megan Oswald: So I agree. No, I actually agree. You’re right. What you put out there is what you attract, right?

Brian Kwilosz: Right, right.

Megan Oswald: In a nutshell.

Sarah Ware: And so does it help for recruiting and things of that nature? Or it just is a natural flow because of some of the practice that you’ve put in place has that been a buzz? It may not have been because I think maybe that’s something that’s not being quote unquote “track”, but I think this is a new buzz where people are more aligned to see it or if you’ve already been doing it. And so it just doesn’t seem like you’re doing anything different than what you’ve already done.

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah. That’s a really interesting question and kind of a concept because I think most of us just kind of go forward, right? There isn’t really a deliberate intent as to, OK, I need to focus on whatever group it may be, whether it’s race, religion, gender, whatever. Should there be? I don’t know. I mean, that’s a conversation. I think just being open to anyone who comes in to hang their license, you need to have that conversation.

Sarah Ware: And I will say this just looking at both sides of the coin. I think sometimes there has to be a deliberate strategy because if, sometime you may wake up in or be in a room with people that like, “Wait a minute. What’s wrong with this picture?

Brian Kwilosz: I’ll tell you what’s wrong with the picture. And this is a conversation I’ve been having recently is if I’m sitting in a room at whether I’m on a board of directors or a committee or a brokerage, and I look around and everybody looks exactly like me, we have a problem.

Sarah Ware: Right, right. So it’s kind of I think people realize that wait a minute, a lot of these rooms are the same. And so there’s no diversification of ideas and thoughts. I think that’s why it became a buzzword because I think many people started looking in the room and like, “Whoa, wait a minute. Why is no diversification by ideas?” And then the real estate industry, that’s shows how that plays out from across the board, like how diverse is it? I can have my personal thoughts, but I think let’s kind of opened up. People in different leadership positions moving up of all types.

Brian Kwilosz: I like how you brought up something that probably doesn’t get discussed a whole lot, because I think diversity may be looked at on more of a surface, right? But the diversity of thoughts, ideas, and experience is just as important.

Sarah Ware: Because Megan and I, we may have a conversation about appraisals and certain markets. I mean, you’d be like, what are you talking about? You know, maybe real passion like in Naperville and maybe one conversation. And then like, in my mind, like in South Shore, there may be a different conversation. That’s the next panel after this one.

Megan Oswald: So next conversation.

Sarah Ware: I’m going to say the hot topics. So how this is really to get things going addressing the best and worst practices regarding the use of social media. Use social media for good of business and stuff, and not as a weapon or to be extreme as some recent examples and we may or may not like. We could just use the Capitol (incident) as a prime example of how it works matters, using social media and branding.

Sarah Ware: So, there’s been real estate agents that have been let go of companies, but I’d like your input of both your examples. And then Brian as a broker owner, because I think people always talk about this freedom of speech, but as a broker owner we’re all at will like independent contractors. So you can say, you don’t have to give a report. People are always like, “Oh, you can’t fire them. They have everything.” Like, what if I don’t want you at my brand? Then that’s so like Parler, Twitter, all these private companies, they have the right to say who and what, I guess those are those. My mother always jokes about, she hates clicking on terms and conditions because she doesn’t know what they are, so she doesn’t click on them.

So that’s probably caught up in those terms and conditions in some way then we’re like, “Oh, maybe that’s what Twitter was like.” So I think we want to know how you can use it as good for your business and not as a weapon and how we know what not to do that’s been done.

Megan Oswald: I beg to differ. Some people don’t know what not to do because they’re still doing it.

Brian Kwilosz: You’re right.

Megan Oswald: That’s my, I mean, sorry. I’m going to keep that two sense to myself.

Brian Kwilosz: Wel,l that follows a theme. You don’t know what you don’t know, right? So you see examples of agents, brokers doing things online, when you read it and see it, it’s just like, I can’t believe that you just put that out there, right?

Sarah Ware: Right.

Brian Kwilosz: But that’s kind of what we’re talking about here is, you need to educate yourself and we need to know more about what we should be doing.

Sarah Ware: And just going back to the experience at the Capitol. Like their intent may have been good, but it’s just the appearance, how you are tagged to that. So then that’s part of branding yourself. And then if you’re an agent at a brand, then you’re representing like it could be one of your agents, Brian, and then nobody remembers that agent. They’re like, “Oh, EXIT.” How important is that as you are educating?

Brian Kwilosz: It’s very important. And I think that as agents and brokers, what you need to understand that what you do nowadays, if it’s online, it’s there, right? It’s not going away. You can delete whatever you want, but it’s there forever.

Megan Oswald: Someone’s still going to find it.

Brian Kwilosz: So you look at your example, Sarah, with what happened a couple of days ago is there are business owners who are just being devastated and losing tons of business because of their participation or what they did, right? So it’s have the awareness and choose what you want to do, but understand that there’s consequences for a certain segment of the population because they’re going to perceive it, however they want.

Sarah Ware: Right. Right, and… Go ahead, Megan.

Megan Oswald: No, I was just going to say, and also as an independent contractor, right? Like making sure that you’re aligning yourself and you’re searching for whatever company you’re going to hang your license at with someone or a company organization that you agree with them, right? With what their practices are, how they brand themselves, what their quote, unquote “beliefs” are not just religious beliefs, but beliefs in general, right? How they run their business. I feel like as an independent contractor, it’s very important to align yourself with that type of company. If that’s what you’re doing from the beginning, from the jump, you’re very rarely probably going to go astray. Like some of these people did the other day, because you’re already aligned yourself with someone that’s like-minded.

Sarah Ware: And it’s not to say you can agree to disagree, but you know, once it starts to sound like you’re using it as a weapon and then you go into the extreme, then that’s where it gets to be you know? I mean, we know REALTORS® that voice their opinions, whatever they may be and they’re OK to do that. Just know that sometimes it may rub people a different way, whether it’s your client or things like that.

Brian Kwilosz: And it’s also important, Sarah to remember that as licensed REALTORS®, again we’re going to go back to that Code of Ethics, right? We are bound by the Code of Ethics and a standard that we hold ourselves to.

And understand that literally everything that you do goes through that lens, right? So whether you’re on the board for your homeowners association and you sign off on a letter, that’s going out to one of your homeowners about a violation, filter that through the lens of you being a REALTOR® because everything comes back to that. Whether you think that it’s going through your professional business or not.

Megan Oswald: You need to remember that again, as Brian said, Code of Ethics, but it’s how you’re presenting your opinion, your personal or professional opinion out there.

Sarah Ware: Okay. So we know the don’ts, what are some ways that you can use social media to build your brand for positive, and then the two of you, how do you use social media to promote a positive effect? Because now we have what we all have this Spotify app that you can use for your local association, National Association of REALTORS® where you can brand yourself once everything’s in the market. So Megan and Brian speak to how is it? Because we know what not to do and how that can turn out bad. What is it you may practice or that you have seen some success?

Megan Oswald: Well, I mean, I’m probably going to defer this for him because, OK. I’m not the greatest at social media, probably those that know me watching this and know that I’m not a huge fan of social media, and I know it helps you put yourself out there, gain business and all these things. And again, it’s not that I don’t dislike it. I just I’m not as consistent with using it in maybe the ways that I should. I don’t think it’s a bad thing, it’s just not my resource, right?

Megan Oswald: But what I will say is that what we were talking about earlier in regards to what your interests are like whether it’s basket weaving. If you’re weaving baskets, the basket weavers might reach out to you and you might gain a client, from there. If you have kids that are some of their interests or you’re playing a certain sport, but I feel like social media can definitely gain your business for like-minded individuals that share interests. Again, it just, whatever you put out there is what you’re going to get back. It attracts what you attract.

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah, I understand that it’s permanent, right? That’s the important part. But yeah, I agree with you Megan, it can be a rabbit hole, right? So I think being strategic about it is important and being deliberate about what you’re putting out there and where you’re spending your time is important because it’s, especially these days when we’re isolating, we’re at home a lot more. It’s easy to just pick up the phone and just drop two hours, just scrolling through to see what’s going on in the world, man. And that’s not productive, but it can be a valuable tool if like you said, you use it deliberately and you focus on areas and connecting with people and putting something of value out there.

Megan Oswald: Value, yes. Sorry.

Sarah Ware: You mean standing in front of a car is not valuable?

Megan Oswald: I mean, I had this conversation with a good friend last week, but we were talking about this exactly. I was just saying that I had that, sorry to cut you off Brian, but you like, you sparked something in me. Because I had this conversation last week with a good friend in the industry. And we were talking about sometimes just putting content out there is not going to help you. It might actually hinder or hurt you, right? So it’s like, what are you putting out there that’s valuable? And that’s probably the majority of folks out there are putting out things just to put something out, right? And I feel like the wrong strategy to do. Obviously people want to see you in the consistency needs to be there, which I know I’m not. So I’m not, can’t speak on that too much, but no, you hit it on the head there with like your content should at least produce some type of value.

Sarah Ware: Go ahead, you had something.

Brian Kwilosz: I was just…

Megan Oswald: You totally cut him off.

Brian Kwilosz:  It’s completely right. It’s come in the spirit of service, give some value. And then I hope something’s going to come from it.

Megan Oswald: One thing I do want to kind of put out there because I’ve been seeing this bit in social media, obviously, you want to use it to gain business, use it to kind of pull in clientele. But I also want, actually not want, but I think it’s important that what you’re putting out there is true to your business, right? You’re not faking the funk so to speak to where you’re showcasing 36,000 (or 3,600)-square-foot homes when you’re selling 1,200-square foot homes, you know? And I just feel like it’s really important to utilize that tool for what you actually know, like what your knowledge base is around.

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah. That brings us back to our first, our first question, right? You know, focus on and practice what you’re comfortable with and represent in reality.

Megan Oswald: Yes. And it’s okay to want to put things out there and try to break into another market, but you have to be realistic there and you have to do it. I feel like in the property channels.

Sarah Ware: So we had some key points. I’m going to do a recap before we end, just kind of do some high level points of what we learned today. We talked about having a strategy, building your brand and if you’re trying to get into something, do it because you’re having an interest level. What else did we talk about?

Megan Oswald: Code of ethics.

Sarah Ware: Code of Ethics, sure. And I’m glad, so Code of Ethics that is something that you can learn. What you need to know but you should keep building yourself on education. Education is very important. I know we get our education requirements come up every two years, but I think as practitioners, we should always be educating ourselves. And so either we go to school, they are a resource that you can go on. And just because it’s time to get your license, you shouldn’t when it’s the last minute, but they have other things to kind of enhance certain designations that you may want and just further your policy and procedures.

So, and speaking of that, consistency, your policy and procedure. So you’re treating consumers consistently. We do not want either of you on a story where I see Brian is showing listings to one group and then directing or Megan or myself. So just be consistent because I think the big takeaway is when people always are nervous about diversity or getting in trouble, if you’re consistent, there is nothing to worry about.

Brian Kwilosz: Yeah, have a checklist, right? Have a procedure, have a checklist and do it the same every time, no matter who’s sitting in front of you.

Sarah Ware: Exactly, exactly. And so because if it ever comes back and it shows any indication of impropriety then that’s where it gets to be. Because you don’t have to worry about it. It’s like, Oh, well, it doesn’t matter who it is. Like if they’re approved for this, then they want to live here. This is what they’re saying and that’s that. All right. Good conversation, lively discussion. Thank you both for joining me today on this session. And I’m looking forward to having more life discussion and I’m sure I will see you once at post-COVID. We’ll see you at maybe Springfield or one of the other meetings, but have a great rest of your day.

Brian Kwilosz: I can’t wait for live in-person stuff.

Megan Oswald: Yeah.

Sarah Ware: I know.

Megan Oswald: Thank you so much for this conversation that I think definitely needs to be heard. And you’re actually right. Illinois REALTORS® website. I feel like for over the past years, they have so many resources right now that you can utilize while you’re at home, right? You can do these things online…

Sarah Ware: Or on your couch, the forms alone, every don’t need to get you started on. And then just information don’t keep yourself abreast of what’s going on because they have the market stats. You know, that we probably, that may mean people may or may not open up. I would say take the time to look through it and you and the best of your band, [inaudible 00:49:35]. So that’s our risk management tool that we know how to stay out of trouble.

Megan Oswald: Knowledge is power.

Sarah Ware: Right. Thank you guys.

Megan Oswald: Thank you.

Brian Kwilosz: Thank you.

Sarah Ware: Great discussion. So if you have questions, we’ve included the email address it’s [email protected]. You can go to the website for resources and some of the education class that we kind of spoke of and touched on. And we have a list of our industry partners that we include in the list for your information.

Conclusion: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Illinois REALTORS® podcast. Don’t forget to like subscribe, share, and of course go on to iTunes or your podcast app of choice and leave us a rating and a review. If you’d like to know more about us, you can simply go to www.illinoisrealtors.org.